~ Bob Herbert
The above quote is taken from the NY Times opinion-editorial, "Separate and Unequal," written by Bob Herbert. This is the author's opinion. In Chapter 6, "Opinions: What's Believed?" Mayfield defines the various kinds of opinions and "distinguishing between responsible and irresponsible opinions. " Based on Mayfield's classification, identify the type of opinion, Herbert is writing. What is his opinion based on? Using Mayfield's distinction as a reference, would you consider his opinion to be responsible or irresponsible? Finally, do you agree or disagree with Herbert? Why or Why not?
Before you answer the text, read Chapter 6 and the Herbert article (click the title above).
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68 comments:
In the text, on pages 167 to 176, Mayfield discusses “Opinions: What’s Believed.” She briefly explains the topic in opinion. Opinion actually is what one’s ideas which may not be true. Opinion contains different forms such as judgments, advice, personal ideas, and general public ideas. Besides this, one of the common examples for us is our essay writing. Mayfield states that our thesis in writing is a statement of opinion. Some opinions are responsible and irresponsible. Based on the reading, responsible opinions are opinions that consist of a good and persuasive argument or reason to support the opinions. In contrast, the irresponsible opinions are opinions that consist of a bad argument or reason to support the opinion. As a result, everyone should consider in writing responsible opinions.
In the article “Separate and Unequal,” Herbert, a New York Times opinion-editor shows his person opinion about education in poor black and Hispanic students has become unacceptable politic issue. First, his opinion is irresponsible because he does not clearly explain in the second paragraph why he believes educators know “Educators know that it is very difficult to get consistently good results in schools characterized by high concentrations of poverty.” I do not think that is a good and persuasive argument or reason since the result, good or bad, depends on every poor student. Also, in the third paragraph, he also does not explain in detail about which evidence in form of facts, statistics, or specific examples to support this opinion. Alternatively, he does some good arguments or reasons to support his opinion. He uses a quote from Richard Kahlenberg, a senior fellow at the Century Foundation who specializes in education issues. That clearly supports his opinion.
I partially agree with what he wants to show because he does not support his opinion well although he uses some of good arguments or reasons to support.
Feel free to correct me if I get any mistakes.
Thanks,
Ms. Wanzo
There are five types of opinions; judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences and public sentiment. Judgments are mainly right and wrong, black and white. Advice opinions are giving advice on what you should do. Generalization opinions imply that it has truth to it. Personal preferences require no explanation because it is our own personal belief. Public sentiment is similar to personal preferences because it represents the public’s views. Mayfield is suggesting that everyone is entitled to their own opinions however whether they are correct or not is the bigger question. A critical thinker asks questions based on people’s opinions. Opinions can form arguments when there is evidence to persuade the audience. The author states “opinions should not be confused with facts.” I agree with this statement because opinions are formed based on people’s environment and maybe bias.
Bob Herbert’s opinion is based on studies he has found. Herbert states talking about improving the education system for Blacks and Hispanics is a “political no-no.” Politicians want to stray away as far away from race because it is a touchy subject. Schools are asked to take test to see where the students are academically. Also the students are divided based on “drawing of the property lines” where the students can go for school. This has forced many parents to lie about their addresses so that their children may go to a better school. Based on Mayfield’s classification Bob Herbert’s opinion is a generalization because he has evidence and Herbert is interpreting them. Herbert’s opinion is responsible opinion. I do agree with Herbert because
school districts are based on where people live. How students learn is based and is a reflect ion of the environment and the staff. Like Herbert states, many teachers rather teach in an affluent community rather than a poverty community.
Caresse Fong
Hello Andrew,
I am not sure of your point. You disagree but you agree with Herbert. Which is it? In your objection to him you state that Herbert does not prove his point. First identify his main idea and then point out the inconsistencies in his argument. Let's work it out.
Thanks,
Ms. Wanzo
Hello Caresse,
Your response is very well written. You've broken down Mayfield's definitions of opinions nicely. If Herbert is using facts and statistics to support his opinion, that means he is pointing to specific cases or speaking more concretely about the problem with education and the African American/Latino student. If this is the case, then why do you consider it a generalization? What clue words in the text support this position?
Ms. Wanzo
Hi Caresse,
I enjoy reading what you have said in your post. First, you clearly explain in detail for the five types of opinions, judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and public sentiment.
Also, I like your analysis on the New York Times article. I think I should read that again and following your direction.
Thanks.
Andrew
Ms. Wanzo,
Thanks Ms. Wanzo for the response.
I thought it was a generalization because he states everybody. Herbert then uses the evidence to support his case by using the specific cases. The specific cases only further support Herbert’s opinion about the education for African American/Latinos. He uses the Brown vs. Board of education case as an example of how today it is still segregated but by different means like where you live.
Caresse Fong
Andrew,
Thank you for the response. I agree with your statement "Opinion actually is what one’s ideas which may not be true." How would everyone consider writing in responsible writing? The person who made formed the opinion maybe bias. If they can support their postion with evidence doesn't it some how make their opinion credible? Shouldn't it be the readers should question who the author is? Please clarify these questions for me.
Thanks,
Caresse Fong
Hi Caresse,
It seems now confused to me. However, I will try my best to answer your questions. If authors can support their position with evidence, their opinion, of course, become credible. I think what you want me to answer is a responsible opinion should not contain any bias, and it should contain any kind of opinions from others, right?
Please correct me.
Thanks.
Andrew
Andrew,
I wanted to know how we would consider writing in responsible writing? Is the responsible opinion not suppose to contain bias? Is if consider responsible writing if it contains opinions from others because they can be bias?
I hope that clears up my questions Andrew.
Caresse Fong
Hi Caresse,
Actually, the concept is still not clear to me, but I will try my best to answer so that I can clear my concept.
We would consider the credibility in responsible writing. As chapter 6 states "you would need to know how well and recently he had studied the subject, how much inside knowledge he had, and what sources he had consulted.
Also, you said that opinions can form arguments when there is evidence to persuade the audience.
The responsible opinion is not suppose to contain bias. Both sides are supposed to be listened.
Thanks to Caresse Fong
Andrew
Reading chapter six, Mayfield discuss the five types of opinions. 1)Judgements:bad or good 2)Advice:giving advice to a person on what they should do or not 3)Generalization:represent the truth 4)Personal Preferences:Does not need to be explained or justified 5)General Public Sentiment:represent the public point of view. Also Mayfield express how many people confused facts with opinions which is incorrect. Opinions is someone thought that may or may not be true. When people know the difference between facts and opinions; it will show in their writing being responsible or irresponsible.
Bob Herbert writing is responsible because he form his arguement base on the education system that need improvement for Black and Hispanic students. So many students does not get the same education as the upper class students. Herbert prove that background and income determine how black and Hispanic students get treated. The example Herbert use is the case of Brown vs. Broad of Education. Based on Mayfield's classification on opinions, Herbert writing shows the type of generalization because he use evidence to back up his opinion. Therefore, I have to agree with Herbert arguement because the education system is still unequal and separated from the upper class students. There are too many teachers who is getting layoff from their jobs which is a result of the test scores being low.
Hello Caresse Fong,
I agree with your comment on Herbert writing because there are parents who lie about their address so their child can get the best education. I think no parents should have to lie because each child should get the same opportunity whether it's the backgroung, status of income or environment. Everyone shoud be treated equally.
I agree with you that "Schools are asked to take test to see where the students are academically. Also the students are divided based on “drawing of the property lines” where the students can go for school. This has forced many parents to lie about their addresses so that their children may go to a better school". That is so true. I know a lot of people who live in Oakland or live around Encinal High but their kids are going to Alameda High School. All parent in the world want the best thing for their children specially, they want their kids have a best education. They think the best school is based on the environment and kid's background.
In chapter 6, Mayfield talks about the certain types of opinion. The opinions that Mayfield talk about can be based on judgments, advice, generalization, personal taste or preferences, and public sentiment. In the article “Separate and Unequal,” Bob Herbert has put many types of opinions in his article. There were some advice opinions, where his advice states “if you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” Then add another opinion that was public sentiment, saying that it has been done and shown great results. Most of what Herbert says is base on all types of opinions. He has put personal references as he states his position and how he feels on the issue he is addressing. Along with judgment opinion where he state “society should be more integrated in almost every way than it is now.” There is also his generalization of opinion when he address poor kids with ethnic backgrounds do better in schools that have more “affluent - middle class peers;” providing evidence so forth. Bob Herbert pretty much put every type of opinions to support his argument of issue.
After reading his article, I would consider his opinion to be responsible where he is in favor for integration and suggests schools and students should be more integrated between low to high or even mid class students. I agree with his argument, since he is addressing how confining poor students into poor education. As he stated evidence that shows good results for integrated schools, may help benefit if school becomes more integrated regardless of class and race.
Herbert’s opinion is based on recent researches and studies about today’s schools are still “segregated”. Herbert’s article indicated that “Schools are no longer legally segregated, but because of residential patterns, housing discrimination, economic disparities and long-held custom, they most emphatically are in reality.” Herbert used several studies to prove that poor children did better in affluent school than in least-advantaged school. He claims that such separation based on district, income, and ethnicity is an unequal “political no-no”. Using Mayfield’s distinction as a reference, I would consider Herbert’s opinion to be responsible and be generalizations. This is because his opinion is not only his self-interest. Herbert does offer recently released studies to be evidences for supporting his viewpoint of which the segregation of school system is a common issue that impacts all ethnicity, as “a general truth (Mayfields, 170).” Finally, I agree with Herbert’s point on the segregation issue. Children have various potentials. They should be educated in same advantaged school settings. I think the segregation happened because children are not equally and fairly picked by schools. Yes, I mean that children have no choice on selecting the school they want to enroll, because the system makes district to decide children’s education condition. All public schools are free for tuition for US citizens. Why not all public schools have same advantages? Afterward, why not all children have same right and opportunity to enroll a school? In my experience, I tried to apply a better high school which is out of my living location, and my request was refused because of district issue. At that time, I felt the result is really unfair, because the answer of my request was not based on my performance but the district. In addition, I believe that children's potentials develop better when better conditions are given and equal opportunity provided.
In Chapter 6, Mayfield difines 6 forms of opinion, which are judgment, advice, generalizations. personal, preferences, and general public sentiment. In "separate and unequal", Herbery gives out many advice opinions, such as "if you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty". I think this opinion is irreponsible. And i don't agree this opinion. Because I think the poverty enviroment is not the main cause of students did bad in schools. The main cause is their family it is base on how their parents teach them. Also, it is depending on how they control theirselves. Moreover, I think American's education and institusion have many problem, that make the sutdents do bad in schools. Herbery also gives out the personal opinion "everybody's in favor of helping poor black kids do better in school, but the consensus is that those efforts are best confined to the kids' own poor black neighborhoods". I don't agree this statement, because i think all people want the poor blacks kids have better education, not only their poor neighborhoods.
First identify his main idea and then point out the inconsistencies in his argument.
Hi Ms. Wanzo and my classmates,
The main idea from the New York opinion-editor, Herbert shows his opinion of improving the education to poor black and Hispanic public school students. How to improve the education to them has become a political impermissible. He first talks about how educators generally think of this issue. Then, he starts showing some evidence to support his personal opinion. Herbert shows an evidence, long years ago; prove that poor students who study at more affluent area of schools are getting better academic improvements. After saying this, he states an old concept of separate but equal schools. After seeing the article again, I agree with Caresse that Herbert’s opinion is generalization because Herbert examines the generalizations provided by others for their basis in evidence. Therefore, this is a responsible opinion. I also agree with Herbert since how students learn depends on the living environment, teachers, and community.
Sorry to make you confused from my first post.
Thanks,
Andrew
Hi Ms. Wanzo and my classmates,
The main idea from the New York opinion-editor, Herbert shows his opinion of improving the education to poor black and Hispanic public school students. How to improve the education to them has become a political impermissible. He first talks about how educators generally think of this issue. Then, he starts showing some evidence to support his personal opinion. Herbert shows an evidence, long years ago; prove that poor students who study at more affluent area of schools are getting better academic improvements. After saying this, he states an old concept of separate but equal schools. After seeing the article again, I agree with Caresse that Herbert’s opinion is generalization because Herbert examines the generalizations provided by others for their basis in evidence. Therefore, this is a responsible opinion. I also agree with Herbert since how students learn depends on the living environment, teachers, and community.
Sorry to make you confused from my first post.
Hey Caresse,
I agree that Bob Herbert has put many of his opinions to support his argument, and that opinions help make arguments. When Herbert puts evidence and facts to support his opinions, it help support his argument on school integration. We are still a little separated, like from urban downtown to the suburbs, there are uncertainties on how student to focus on their academics through their conditional learning environment. Bob Herbert's opinion is really based on his studies, which really help supports the his argument and the opinions itself. Knowing these types of opinions helps figure out what whether it is responsible or irresponsible.
Regards to May field’s classifications of opinions; I believe Herbert’s has based his around an argument that is well supported. Take for example, the statement regarding the landmark case Brown V. Board of education on the ruling of desegregation of schools. Furthermore, Herbert refers to Richard Kahlenberg, a senior fellow at Century Foundation, a group that specializes in educations issues, to add additional support to the article. Therefore, it would be fair enough to say that Herbert’s article does have legitimacy behind it, just for the simple fact he provides references to support his position. I would consider his opinion to be responsible. Herbert’s choice of words was not offensive, or distasteful. The article was to bring awareness, and reiterate, that poverty still exists in the public school system, and much more work is still need to be done.
Therefore, I agree with Herbert position. Society is so culturally diverse, and it would be beneficial to have more schools districts do their part on integrating our youth, there is so much to learn from one another. However, if school administrators continue to turn a blind eye to this situation, the next generation will certainly have a tougher time moving the country forward.
Hey Caresse
I agree that once a school is establish on a certain location the people live around there will tend to enroll in those schools. It is based on where people live. These types of assumptions really help see whether Herbert is responsible and irresponsible on his opinions, I too agree his opinions is responsible. Most of his opinions like you is usually based on his studies. He came with facts and evidence to support his various opinions and it helps support his argument.
Based on Mayfield's classification, the type of opinion is judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. In Herbert Writing, his opinion base on generalizations, judgments and advice. I consider his opinion to be responsible because he made generalization to represent the general truth by showing the evidence that “Educators know that it is very difficult to get consistently good results in schools characterized by high concentrations of poverty.” He also made a judgment opinion about this is good for poor black and Hispanic children by giving the evidence to support for his reason is “Long years of evidence show that poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers.” And he made another judgment opinion about this is bad for poor black and Hispanic children to support his reason by showing the evidence is “Schools are no longer legally segregated, but because of residential patterns, housing discrimination, economic disparities and long-held custom, they most emphatically are in reality.” “The current obsession with firing teachers, attacking unions and creating ever more charter schools has done very little to improve the academic outcomes of poor black and Latino students. Nothing has brought about gains on the scale that is needed.” He is also give some advice how to improve the education of poor children by giving his responsible opinion and some evidence “If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” “An important study conducted by the Century Foundation in Montgomery County, Md., showed that low-income students who happened to be enrolled in affluent elementary schools did much better than similarly low-income students in higher-poverty schools in the county.” “The study, released last October, found that “over a period of five to seven years, children in public housing who attended the school district’s most advantaged schools far outperformed in math and reading those children in public housing who attended the district’s least-advantaged public schools.” I agree with Herbert that Separate but equal, and we should help poor black and Hispanic kids do better in school because we want those black and Hispanic kids to have a better academically in the more affluent environment by giving to them a better teachers, fewer classroom disruptions.
In the article, “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield explains different types of opinions such as judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Judgments are kind of decisions or choices. Advice is like an opinion or a suggestion about what somebody might do better. Generalization is like a conclusion which is to describe something. Personal preferences are personal feelings or taste for something. General public sentiment is own idea without any reasons. I think opinions depend on what you think that is true. Opinions are various because different people have different opinion. In addition, Mayfield also explains distinguishing between responsible and irresponsible opinions. To persuade someone to agree with you, you must offer the reasons that can support your point. If you just ask someone to eat apples without any reasons, he or she will not believe what you say because you did not explain why. Reasons are very important.
Bob Herbert’s opinion is based on the information he has researched. Herbert states his opinion on improving the educational success of poor black and Hispanic public school students has become a political no-no. Herbert’s opinion is responsible because of the facts he offers in the article. First, Herbert shows his point about we need to get the poor students away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty if we want their education improved. Then he starts using the facts to support his point such as “poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers.” He continues on “low-income students who happened to be enrolled in affluent elementary schools did much better than similarly low-income students in higher-poverty schools in the county.” I agree with Herbert because he shows good evidence to make me agree with him. America is a free country and everyone has the right to be equal. Education is very important for children; therefore, we need to offer a good environment for them to study.
In chapter 6, “Opinions: What’s Believed?” by Mayfield, she discusses about what is an opinion and how it effects our ability to think critically. Opinions are our decision based on facts, experiences, beliefs and preferences. Opinions can be judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and public sentiment. First, judgment opinions: this is good or this is bad. Second, advice opinions are opinions that involve giving advices what individual should or should not do. Third, generalization opinions are representing a general truth and it supports by evidences. Fourth, personal preferences opinions are base on individual opinion and don’t need to be explained. Final category opinion is public sentiment. It represents public point views. Therefore, opinions can be classified into two categories: responsible and irresponsible opinions. Responsible opinions are opinions that have evidence to support the argument. Irresponsible opinions are opinions that based on feeling.
In “Separate and Unequal” by Bob Herbert, his states that the education system need to be improve for black and Hispanics public school students. Herbert gives all the five types of opinions in his article. For example, the advices opinion “ If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” Then, there is another opinion that was generalization opinion “Long years of evidence show that poor kids of all ethics background do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent –peer.” In my opinion, Herbert uses most of personal reference and generalization opinions in his article. Also, his opinions are consider to be responsible opinions because he gives sufficient evidences to back up his argument. Therefore, I agree with Herbert because it is true that in order to improve the education of poor children, people have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty. Poor children are equal intelligence to their affluent peers, but poverty limit their ability of achieve a better academically.
In the article, “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield explains different types of opinions such as judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Judgments are kind of decisions or choices. Advice is like an opinion or a suggestion about what somebody might do better. Generalization is like a conclusion which is to describe something. Personal preferences are personal feelings or taste for something. General public sentiment is own idea without any reasons. I think opinions depend on what you think that is true. Opinions are various because different people have different opinion. In addition, Mayfield also explains distinguishing between responsible and irresponsible opinions. To persuade someone to agree with you, you must offer the reasons that can support your point. If you just ask someone to eat apples without any reasons, he or she will not believe what you say because you did not explain why. Reasons are very important.
Bob Herbert’s opinion is based on the information he has researched. Herbert states his opinion on improving the educational success of poor black and Hispanic public school students has become a political no-no. Herbert’s opinion is responsible because of the facts he offers in the article. First, Herbert shows his point about we need to get the poor students away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty if we want their education improved. Then he starts using the facts to support his point such as “poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers.” He continues on “low-income students who happened to be enrolled in affluent elementary schools did much better than similarly low-income students in higher-poverty schools in the county.” I agree with Herbert because he shows good evidence to make me agree with him. America is a free country and everyone has the right to be equal. Education is very important for children; therefore, we need to offer a good environment for them to study.
Hi Michael, I really enjoy reading your post. Also, I like how you point out which types of opinion that Bob Herbert used in his article. I have the same ideas as you that his opinion is consider as responsible opinion because he provides evidences to back up the argument. It is true that students who go to school with their more affluent middle classes are getting better academically.
In the article, “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield explains different types of opinions such as judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Judgments are kind of decisions or choices. Advice is like an opinion or a suggestion about what somebody might do better. Generalization is like a conclusion which is to describe something. Personal preferences are personal feelings or taste for something. General public sentiment is own idea without any reasons. I think opinions depend on what you think that is true. Opinions are various because different people have different opinion. In addition, Mayfield also explains distinguishing between responsible and irresponsible opinions. To persuade someone to agree with you, you must offer the reasons that can support your point. If you just ask someone to eat apples without any reasons, he or she will not believe what you say because you did not explain why. Reasons are very important.
Bob Herbert’s opinion is based on the information he has researched. Herbert states his opinion on improving the educational success of poor black and Hispanic public school students has become a political no-no. Herbert’s opinion is responsible because of the facts he offers in the article. First, Herbert shows his point about we need to get the poor students away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty if we want their education improved. Then he starts using the facts to support his point such as “poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers.” He continues on “low-income students who happened to be enrolled in affluent elementary schools did much better than similarly low-income students in higher-poverty schools in the county.” I agree with Herbert because he shows good evidence to make me agree with him. America is a free country and everyone has the right to be equal. Education is very important for children; therefore, we need to offer a good environment for them to study.
In chapter 6, “Opinions: What’s Believed?” by Mayfield, she discusses about what is an opinion and how it effects our ability to think critically. Opinions are our decision based on facts, experiences, beliefs and preferences. Opinions can be judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and public sentiment. First, judgment opinions: this is good or this is bad. Second, advice opinions are opinions that involve giving advices what individual should or should not do. Third, generalization opinions are representing a general truth and it supports by evidences. Fourth, personal preferences opinions are base on individual opinion and don’t need to be explained. Final category opinion is public sentiment. It represents public point views. Therefore, opinions can be classified into two categories: responsible and irresponsible opinions. Responsible opinions are opinions that have evidence to support the argument. Irresponsible opinions are opinions that based on feeling.
In “Separate and Unequal” by Bob Herbert, his states that the education system need to be improve for black and Hispanics public school students. Herbert gives all the five types of opinions in his article. For example, the advices opinion “ If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” Then, there is another opinion that was generalization opinion “Long years of evidence show that poor kids of all ethics background do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent –peer.” In my opinion, Herbert uses most of personal reference and generalization opinions in his article. Also, his opinions are consider to be responsible opinions because he gives sufficient evidences to back up his argument. Therefore, I agree with Herbert because it is true that in order to improve the education of poor children, people have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty. Poor children are equal intelligence to their affluent peers, but poverty limit their ability of achieve a better academically.
In the article, “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield explains different types of opinions such as judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Judgments are kind of decisions or choices. Advice is like an opinion or a suggestion about what somebody might do better. Generalization is like a conclusion which is to describe something. Personal preferences are personal feelings or taste for something. General public sentiment is own idea without any reasons. I think opinions depend on what you think that is true. Opinions are various because different people have different opinion. In addition, Mayfield also explains distinguishing between responsible and irresponsible opinions. To persuade someone to agree with you, you must offer the reasons that can support your point. If you just ask someone to eat apples without any reasons, he or she will not believe what you say because you did not explain why. Reasons are very important.
Bob Herbert’s opinion is based on the information he has researched. Herbert states his opinion on improving the educational success of poor black and Hispanic public school students has become a political no-no. Herbert’s opinion is responsible because of the facts he offers in the article. First, Herbert shows his point about we need to get the poor students away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty if we want their education improved. Then he starts using the facts to support his point such as “poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers.” He continues on “low-income students who happened to be enrolled in affluent elementary schools did much better than similarly low-income students in higher-poverty schools in the county.” I agree with Herbert because he shows good evidence to make me agree with him. America is a free country and everyone has the right to be equal. Education is very important for children; therefore, we need to offer a good environment for them to study.
In the article, “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield explains different types of opinions such as judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Judgments are kind of decisions or choices. Advice is like an opinion or a suggestion about what somebody might do better. Generalization is like a conclusion which is to describe something. Personal preferences are personal feelings or taste for something. General public sentiment is own idea without any reasons. I think opinions depend on what you think that is true. Opinions are various because different people have different opinion. In addition, Mayfield also explains distinguishing between responsible and irresponsible opinions. To persuade someone to agree with you, you must offer the reasons that can support your point. If you just ask someone to eat apples without any reasons, he or she will not believe what you say because you did not explain why. Reasons are very important.
Bob Herbert’s opinion is based on the information he has researched. Herbert states his opinion on improving the educational success of poor black and Hispanic public school students has become a political no-no. Herbert’s opinion is responsible because of the facts he offers in the article. First, Herbert shows his point about we need to get the poor students away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty if we want their education improved. Then he starts using the facts to support his point such as “poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers.” He continues on “low-income students who happened to be enrolled in affluent elementary schools did much better than similarly low-income students in higher-poverty schools in the county.” I agree with Herbert because he shows good evidence to make me agree with him. America is a free country and everyone has the right to be equal. Education is very important for children; therefore, we need to offer a good environment for them to study.
hello Michael Huynh,
I am really like your response on your post, and I also agree with you that school should become more integrated regardless of class and race that can bring many benefit to help the poor black and Hispanic kids to have good education and may be can help them escape from the poverty and have a good future.
Hi Xiaoyin!
You had defined every forms of opinion very clear. And i think you are right that opinion is what you think is true. And after we give out the opinion we have to show the reason to support this opinion.
Hi XiaoMei Li
We both agree with Herbert’s opinion that we need to get the poor students away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty if we want their education improved. We also agree that Herbert’s opinion is responsible because of the facts he gives to us. I think a good opinion must have evidence to support because it explains to the audience why they need to agree with you. In addition, I believe that students will study better if they stay in a good environment because of the good quality.
There were few types of opinions define by Mayfield in chapter 6. Judgement: should not/be (good/bad). Generalized opinion: all, no, some (measurement of truth). Personal preference: I like/don't this (Based on reasons or whim, feelings, emotions or prejudice). Advice Opinion: based on understanding of evidence. Public sentiment: public opinion and or view.
In Herbert article, he uses all the type of opinions we read from Mayfield definition of opinions. His opinion back up his persuasive argument that all students should be treated equal regardless of high or low income and or ethnics. He provides great alternative option advice, statistic results, and personal experience from his own perspective point of view.
Hi Kimvy, I understand your point of view where that every individuals should have the right to pick and enroll to the school of their choice. My guess on why the district restrict such petition is probably because of balancing the population within the area of the community. It's similar to a class enrollment where if it's full then it's full, you'll have to get in line (live there) to get a spot. It wouldn't make sense that they will be willing to accept 10,000 students in a small and healthy school. Just my guess.
In chapter 6, Mayfield clearly explains the 5 types of opinion and teaches us how to distinguish the responside and irresponsible opinions. First of all, there are 5 mains types opinion. They are judments, advice generalizations, personal preference, and general public sentiment. Each has its advantages. Judments is to judge right or worng. Advcie is to encourage someone to do it or not. Generalizations represent a general truth. Personal preferences do not need to be explained or justified. Public sentiment is gauge of prevailing public impressions on current issues. Some opinions are responsible. Some opinion are irresponsible, so we need to evaluate opinion.
In the article “ Separate and Unequal” , the author Bob Herbert states his viewopints about the educational achievement of poor black and Hispanic in public school and how to improve it. I think Herbert’s opinion is responsible because he used some facts to support his idea and some of his personal points are really reasonable. First, he said that : Long years of evidence show that poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers. But when the poor kids are black or Hispanic, that means racial and ethnic integration in the schools.” I really agree with that. If the students were discriminate in the school, it would directly affect their behaviour in studying. I believe students, who were enrolled in a suitable school,did much better. As Herbert’s cited said that: “that low-income students who happened to be enrolled in affluent elementary schools did much better than similarly low-income students in higher-poverty schools in the county.”
I quite like your response because you have have shortly and clearly defined every froms of opinion. And I really agree with you that Herbert’s opionion is responsible because he offered some facts in his article. I also agree with you that America is a piece land of freedom and everyone has the right to be equal. There should be no racism.
In term of Mayfield’s classification of opinion, I think that Herbert is mainly writing on generalizations, because he is trying to present that the concept of separate but equal is impractical at all. Specifically, Herbert considers that segregating schools can cause political problem, and it’s harmful for improving the American educational achievement. On the other hand, Herbert also says that it’s not the race of the students that is significant, but rather the improved all-around environment of schools. After all, he considers that “Separate and Unequal” is the truth.
I would like to say that his opinion is responsible. In his article, Herbert mentions studies and statistics to explain and support his points, which make his claim convictive. For example, he states a study showing that improved environment of school affects students to be more engaged academically. And this evidence responds against the situation that learning environment that are smothered by poverty is an obstacle for improved education.
I agree with Herbert, because I think the integration in school will give them more chances to get to know each other and learn how to live with the others, peacefully. Based on this, racial discrimination get relieved, and a great environment of school will be created, which is an effective way to improve situation of American education.
I tend to go with you that Herbert’s opinion is responsible, and I agree with him. He considers that there is a need to balance the education environment, especially to improve the education of poor children. By the way, I really like the words quoted by Herbert in his article; “The poorer students benefit from the more affluent environment. “It’s a much more effective way of closing the achievement gap.” Said Mr. Kahlenberg. I think this is the point that he is trying to present.
Mayfield categorized opinions into different forms: judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Moreover, Mayfield discussed the differences between responsible and irresponsible opinions. Responsible opinions are opinions related to truths and based on the most valuable source. Irresponsible opinions are personal expressions such as taste and relief that don’t need to justify or evaluate it.
Herbert’s opinions involve judgments, advice, and generalizations.
Judgment: “This society should be far more integrated in almost every way than it is now.
Advice: “If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.”
Generalization: “Nothing has brought about gains on the scale that is needed.” “Some have established specialized, high-achieving magnet schools in high-poverty neighborhoods, which have had some success in attracting middle class students. Some middle-class schools have been willing to accept transfers of low-income students when those transfers are accompanied by additional resources that benefit all of the students in the schools.”
His opinion is based on the important study conducted by the Century Foundation in Montgomery County, Md. and some sources. Moreover, I think his opinion is responsible since he gives evidences to support his opinion that this society should be more integrated between low and high class or low and middle class. I agree with his point because poor student can improve their all-around environment and have better education and teachers when their schools are more integrated between low class and middle class or low class and high class, according to what his evidences show in the article.
I am really enjoyed reading your response. In the first part, you clearly explain the definition of different types of opinion in detail. In the second part, I agree with you that school districts are based on where people live, how students learn is based and is a reflect ion of the environment and the staff. I understand more about this chapter also the article after reading your post.
Thanks.
In Chapter Six, “Opinions: What’s Believed?” by Mayfield, she discusses about the meaning of an opinion. Opinions are our beliefs, judgments and personal view. There are five types of opinions which are judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. First, judgment opinions are mainly good or bad, right or wrong. Then, advice opinions are giving advices of what people should or shouldn’t do. Generalization opinions are representing a general truth supported by reasons and evidence. Personal preferences opinions are your personal opinions that do not need to be rational or explained. The last type of opinions, public sentiment opinions are the feeling and thought from the public. Mayfield also states that opinions can be classified into responsible and irresponsible opinions.
Responsible opinion means an argument that is well supported, and irresponsible opinion means an unsubstantiated belief or personal statement based on feeling.
In the article “Separate and Unequal” Bob Herbert discusses about the education system is needed to improve on the poor black and Hispanic public school, and he uses all types of opinions based on Mayfield’s classification. For example, he uses generalization opinions “Long years of evidence show that poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers.” Then he uses advice opinion “If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” I would consider his opinion is responsible because he has shows evidence to substantiate his ideas, and his word of choice does not have offense. I agree with Herbert since it is so true that the environment of school affect a student a lot and many great teachers choose to teach in an affluent school. I think everyone should have the right to be equal, and no one should be left behind.
Hello, Kimhung
I like the way you explain what the 5 types of opinions are and what their definitions are. This really help me to understand their differences. In addition, I agree with your point that “if the students were discriminate in the school, it would directly affect their behaviour in studying.” It is true that a better learning environment can make students study better.
Thank you and have a nice weekend!
by Ruiqi
In Chapter Six, “Opinions: What’s Believed?” by Mayfield, she discusses about the meaning of an opinion. Opinions are our beliefs, judgments and personal view. There are five types of opinions which are judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. First, judgment opinions are mainly good or bad, right or wrong. Then, advice opinions are giving advices of what people should or shouldn’t do. Generalization opinions are representing a general truth supported by reasons and evidence. Personal preferences opinions are your personal opinions that do not need to be rational or explained. The last type of opinions, public sentiment opinions are the feeling and thought from the public. Mayfield also states that opinions can be classified into responsible and irresponsible opinions.
Responsible opinion means an argument that is well supported, and irresponsible opinion means an unsubstantiated belief or personal statement based on feeling.
In the article “Separate and Unequal” Bob Herbert discusses about the education system is needed to improve on the poor black and Hispanic public school, and he uses all types of opinions based on Mayfield’s classification. For example, he uses generalization opinions “Long years of evidence show that poor kids of all ethnic backgrounds do better academically when they go to school with their more affluent — that is, middle class — peers.” Then he uses advice opinion “If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” I would consider his opinion is responsible because he has shows evidence to substantiate his ideas, and his word of choice does not have offense. I agree with Herbert since it is so true that the environment of school affect a student a lot and many great teachers choose to teach in an affluent school. I think everyone should have the right to be equal, and no one should be left behind.
In the chapter “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield describes that people form opinions from their experience and based on some facts. Opinions can be divided into 5 types which are judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Mayfield also points out that the difference between responsible and irresponsible opinions is that responsible opinions require reasons and evidence to support them. Meanwhile, Mayfield figures out when people provide supporting evidences to persuade others to agree with their opinions, and then these opinions will become arguments.
In “Separate and Unequal”, Herbert points out that the disadvantage of separate education affect poor black and Hispanic public school students. Some types of opinions are shows in this article.
Herbert uses advice opinion when he states that “If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” Moreover, he uses judgments opinion, such as “The poorer students benefit from the more affluent environment.” and “This society should be far more integrated in almost every way than it is now.” Referring to Mayfield's distinction of responsible and irresponsible opinions, I think that Herbert’s opinions are responsible. Herbert provides many evidences and reasons to support his opinions. He uses statistics to persuade people to agree his opinions. I agree with Herbert’s opinions because I believe that all students should have same rights to choose schools and pursue their dreams.
In chapter 6, Opinions are clearly define. On page 167, " opinions may be wise or foolish, rational or irrational, prejudiced or fair". Opinions are based on experiences and how we placed them in our memory. It's easy to confused opinions with facts but there is a big difference. Opinions are sometimes supported by facts but not always. When people make responsible opinions they have facts for support.
I agree with Herbert statement when he states, " the best teachers tend to avoid such schools". The teachers avoid the worst schools because they don't want to deal with the negative attitude, the students bring with them. Herbert believes that students that do poorly in school is due to little to no parent involvement. I agree with Herbert, if there is no parent involvement then the student wouldn't have the motivation within themselves to do well in school.
To Jennifer Cornelius, Your blog is well written. You clearly define what an opinion is. I liked how you agree with Herbert and how you brought in support to back up your opinion.
In the New York Times opinion-editorial “Separate and Unequal,” Bob Herbert takes on the issue of unequal education. He used all of the types of opinions defined by Mayfield, including judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences, and general sentiment. He used judgment when he said “what I think is a shame is that we have to do all of this humiliating dancing around the […] issue of race.” Advice was given when he said “[…] you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” A generalization was used when he said “Nothing has brought about gains on the scale that is needed.” He gave personal preference by stating “I favor integration for integration’s sake.” General sentiment was applied with the statement “About 80 school districts across the country are taking steps to reduce the concentrations of poverty in their schools.”
Bob Herbert’s opinion is based on statistics and studies. I would consider his opinion to be responsible. I agree with Herbert because I believe that the environment children are in can have positive and negative effects on their school performance.
Hi Caresse Fong,
I agree with your idea about opinions are formed based on people’s environment. People would use their experiences and knowledge to expresses their opinions. And I also agree that school districts are based on where people live. When we search the information about the housing price, we know that the housing price would be affect by the school district. Most of parents would like to live in good school districts because they believe that their children can have chances to go to good school and get higher education when they live in this district.
In the chapter “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield describes that people form opinions from their experience and based on some facts. Opinions can be divided into 5 types which are judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Mayfield also points out that the difference between responsible and irresponsible opinions is that responsible opinions require reasons and evidence to support them. Meanwhile, Mayfield figures out when people provide supporting evidences to persuade others to agree with their opinions, and then these opinions will become arguments.
In “Separate and Unequal”, Herbert points out that the disadvantage of separate education affect poor black and Hispanic public school students. Some types of opinions are shows in this article. Herbert uses advice opinion when he states that “If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” Moreover, he uses judgments opinion, such as “The poorer students benefit from the more affluent environment.” and “This society should be far more integrated in almost every way than it is now.” Referring to Mayfield's distinction of responsible and irresponsible opinions, I think that Herbert’s opinions are responsible. Herbert provides many evidences and reasons to support his opinions. He uses statistics to persuade people to agree his opinions. I agree with Herbert’s opinions because I believe that all students should have same right to choose schools and pursue their dreams.
I have a problem with Bob Herberts’ statement that "the best teachers tend to avoid such schools." When he used the term “best teachers,” he is implying that most teachers at “such” schools are bad. This situation is similar to the last last article we read about how Jalen Rose said that "Duke recruited only black players he considered to be ‘Uncle Toms.'" I don’t believe that there is a bad teacher. Like how the students’ performance in schools are influenced by the environment, the teachers’ performance is influenced on the students.
In chapter 6, Mayfield clearly explains the 5 types of opinion: judgments, advice generalizations, personal preference, and general public sentiment and teaches us how to distinguish the responsive and irresponsible opinions. In Herbert article, his opinion is all students should be treated equal regardless of high or low income and or ethnics. I agree with him in this point because the school’s equipments are depending on the income of the district and people who live in that area. And, he thinks “if you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty". I think the environment is not the only reason that affect to the kids but also the way how their parent teach them.
In the chapter “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield describes that people form opinions from their experience and based on some facts. Opinions can be divided into 5 types which are judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Mayfield also points out that the difference between responsible and irresponsible opinions is that responsible opinions require reasons and evidence to support them. Meanwhile, Mayfield figures out when people provide supporting evidences to persuade others to agree with their opinions, and then these opinions will become arguments.
In “Separate and Unequal”, Herbert points out that the disadvantage of separate education affect poor black and Hispanic public school students. Some types of opinions are shows in this article. Herbert uses advice opinion when he states that “If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” Moreover, he uses judgments opinion, such as “The poorer students benefit from the more affluent environment.” and “This society should be far more integrated in almost every way than it is now.” Referring to Mayfield's distinction of responsible and irresponsible opinions, I think that Herbert’s opinions are responsible. Herbert provides many evidences and reasons to support his opinions. He uses statistics to persuade people to agree his opinions. I agree with Herbert’s opinions because I believe that all students should have same right to choose schools and pursue their dreams.
I agree with you one school can't accept so many student. I'm just saying that that's what happening around us. Also, as we agreed that kids have the same right to have an equal education so I think the all school should have the same fund and repair the best equipment to help all kids study.
In chapter 6, Mayfield clearly explains the 5 types of opinion: judgments, advice generalizations, personal preference, and general public sentiment and teaches us how to distinguish the responsive and irresponsible opinions. In Herbert article, his opinion is all students should be treated equal regardless of high or low income and or ethnics. I agree with him in this point because the school’s equipments are depending on the income of the district and people who live in that area. And, he thinks “if you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty". I think the environment is not the only reason that affect to the kids but also the way how their parent teach them.
In chapter 6, Mayfield clearly explains the 5 types of opinion: judgments, advice generalizations, personal preference, and general public sentiment and teaches us how to distinguish the responsive and irresponsible opinions. In Herbert article, his opinion is all students should be treated equal regardless of high or low income and or ethnics. I agree with him in this point because the school’s equipments are depending on the income of the district and people who live in that area. And, he thinks “if you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty". I think the environment is not the only reason that affect to the kids but also the way how their parent teach them.
In the chapter “Opinions: what’s believed?”, Mayfield describes that people form opinions from their experience and based on some facts. Opinions can be divided into 5 types which are judgments, advice, generalizations, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Mayfield also points out that the difference between responsible and irresponsible opinions is that responsible opinions require reasons and evidence to support them. Meanwhile, Mayfield figures out when people provide supporting evidences to persuade others to agree with their opinions, and then these opinions will become arguments.
In “Separate and Unequal”, Herbert points out that the disadvantage of separate education affect poor black and Hispanic public school students. Some types of opinions are shows in this article. Herbert uses advice opinion when he states that “If you really want to improve the education of poor children, you have to get them away from learning environments that are smothered by poverty.” Moreover, he uses judgments opinion, such as “The poorer students benefit from the more affluent environment.” and “This society should be far more integrated in almost every way than it is now.” Referring to Mayfield's distinction of responsible and irresponsible opinions, I think that Herbert’s opinions are responsible. Herbert provides many evidences and reasons to support his opinions. He uses statistics to persuade people to agree his opinions. I agree with Herbert’s opinions because I believe that all students should have same right to choose schools and pursue their dreams.
hi, Ken,
I don't totally agree with your saying of "we should help poor black and Hispanic kids do better in school because we want those black and Hispanic kids to have a better academically in the more affluent environment by giving to them a better teachers, fewer classroom disruptions." Not only poor black and Hispanic Kids, but all kids that in low-income family. I think the main problem is on government or related department.
Based on Mayfield's classification, Herbert's opinion is considered as public sentiment. I believe his opinion is responsible because not only did he provided many examples, but he also provided many statistics. The reasonings he presented are very accurate and reasonable.
I agree with Herbert. I agree that even if laws have been passed and there are changes that have been made and such relating to racism, not everyone is equal. There is still inequality still happening all around us. I do agree that kids who are grouped together in a low income areas can not really rise up, like other kids who are more affluent. Even if race is not the issue; minorities are the ones that are the majority of the low income neighborhoods. We must take this issue head on and like Herbert said don't just dance around the uncomfortable issue of race.
In the article, there are five different types of opinions in Mayfield’ explanations like judgments, advice, generalization, personal preferences, and general public sentiment. Moreover, he also explains the different between the responsible and irresponsible opinions.
In “Separate and Unequal” by Bob Herbert, he states that it hard to have good performance in school by high concentrations of poverty in schools. He used several studies to prove that his opinion is responsible because he provide many evidences to support his points of view about it is good to break up from learning environments that full of poverty children because low income students will do “did better in affluent school than in least-advantaged school”. And, I agree with Herbert’s point on the segregation issue because studying environment can change in motivation and engagement outcomes because too much emphasis on income level, racial or ethnic diversity has lowered the quality of the institution and it could not promote cultural awareness and limited the experiences to be shared. Moreover, students’ perceptions of teacher and parents support also relate to positive educational outcomes.
To Kimvy Nguyen:
I agree with you that parents play a huge role in their children's school life. The article pointed out that parents in affluent elementary schools are more involved in the school, while parents in lower income less prosperous areas are more likely not to be involved. It is usually because the mother or father or both are the ones that have either two to three jobs and also the job of taking care of other children and even extended families. It is a hard problem to solve
Hi Francisco,
I agree with your points that the benefits of diversity and there is so much to learn from one another because people may comprehend and acknowledge the differences in perception of experiences the ideas and the world so they can extend their understandings and know how to work with their peers in the diversity learning environment.
Thanks
Hi Jessica,
I agree with your comments about if there is no parent involvement in schools the student wont due well. I also like your observation “when people make responsible opinions they have facts for support.”
In chapter 6 we learn about how opinions are clearly defined. We sometimes mistake opinions with facts but there is a huge difference. I agree with Herbert’s statement when he says, “Schools are no longer legally segregated, but because of residential patterns, housing discrimination, economic disparities and long-held custom, they most emphatically are in reality.” This statement is true because parents at affluent schools are usually more involved and able to contribute more money to their child’s education. Where at a school with a high poverty rate usually has less parent involvement and much less fund contributed by the parents to assist the student with their education.
Hey Ken,
thanks for the comment, schools should be more integrated in order to help benefit society a lot more and their academic curriculum as Bob Herbert has shown evidence that it has shown great results
Hey Mei,
Thanks for the comment, when I read Herbert article I tried to figure out how many types of opinions he has put. Turns out he put all five types of opinions Mayfield have written. Which these five types of opinions can help figure out whether they are responsible or irresponsible. I like how you describe some of the opinions that was on the article.
Thank You
Herbert is basing his opinion on facts and is therefore one I would take as credible. Studies have been conducted and the results have pointed towards better education through integrated schools. One thing that may further strengthen his argument would to have more tests run and a broader pool of facts to draw an opinion from. Nowhere does he ever really express his opinion just because he has a haunch that it might be correct.
I agree with Herbert. Everyone can be enrolled in school but not everyone can be enrolled in the same level of school. When children are fighting poverty before even setting foot into the class room, they have an unfair advantage right from the start.
Hi linh Vi:
Thank you very much for your comment. I also read your summary, and you did a great job on organizing the information. Furthermore, I agree with your point on how teachers, and parents support can play a positive role in a students educational out come.
Thank you,
Francisco
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